Yawn, it has been obvious for quite some time now that the “bad boy sexing, now wanting stability in later life from the boring nice guys” black woman meme has been exploited beyond measure. I've been tired of it but the answer to the meme is always “black men need to step up”. Really, this is your answer? Why should we step up? We're good, hell half the female population race-be-damned, is down for the black man. When we offer solutions for this “successful but single black woman” issue we are ignored or drowned out with “you know what yall problems is!” and now this, which is new to me… you ask the slighted, shunned, but now all of a sudden wanted good black males to go at our piece of sh-t brothers? The same bastards that you all got knocked up by in your twenties? Wow, no thanks maam. Every good black man should do exactly what he is doing right now, sit back and laugh at the turn of events. This whole article is silly to me, its finger pointing and void of reality.

I think until men hold each other accountable for stepping up, we are only going to sound like we are nagging and unappreciative. That's why I loved the article that was on here not too long ago called “Dear Black Men: Let’s…Just…STOP” because it was written by a man. I get your points in this article and I agree. We don't expect more from men because we are picky. We expect more because they can be more and I mean more than “I pay my child support, am not on the DL and have never been to jail”. A woman can't challenge a man to be more like another man can.

Wow. Hate sistas much? Or just bitter that the ones you want to date aren't reciprocating? Either way, not a good look. By the way, that attitude — which is so pervasive among self-described “good brothas” — probably explains why these “good brothas” are “slighted” and “shunned.”

Lynne's points are really simple:

1. A lot of the brothas who think they're “good” actually have low standards for their own personal conduct.

2. Saying “Good men are everywhere,” suggests that all single black women are all too picky or demanding to settle down with one; or it suggests that single black women are all so undesirable that black men don't want to settle down with them. You DO see the problem with such broad brushstrokes, yes? And both of those scenarios ignore the possibility that many black women are rejecting “good” black men because they're not really that good.

I do like Tiffany's response. The only thing I'll add is that the brothers perpetuating the “good brotha” myth are also perpetuating black women's inability to distinguish or look at the real brothas (flawed, yet well intended) as men with potential. You, marginally-good-brothas touting yourself as good, are ensuring that a real good man gets overlooked. Kudos.

Hi Lynne,

You and I have a similar discussion on a blog post I wrote about black women and relationships. We disagreed on a lot of points, but I do agree with a lot of what you said in this piece. A lot of black men have illusions of grandeur when it comes to their “good black men status”. I agree that this has to be checked. I will also add that there are few forces more powerful than the black male ego . . . and, if there is, it's only collective black male ego. Therefore, “good black brothers” are often loathe to check another black man since there are already so many outlets for black male bashing already.

I hope we can agree that black men and black women both have flawed perceptions of each other. Also, neither group is totally guilty nor totally innocent regarding the current level of dysfunction in many black relationships. I liked this article, and I look forward to similar honest dialog because open communication is the only way we can move toward stronger and healthier relationships.

@Anjuan – “I hope we can agree that black men and black women both have flawed perceptions of each other” <<< I've got one post pending, and another post brewing on this very subject. You're right – this dialogue has to get past the finger pointing, incendiary language and baiting (yo, everyone knows baiting drives traffic, but to what end??) to get to honest, open dialogue, leading to healthier relationships.

The “myth” is the modern concept of marriage. I think we are looking at an era where many men, not just “good brothas” are finding that marriage just is not a good idea. Very few people seem willing to talk about this. Most men are finding that it is not a good look to invest yourself in what is statistically speaking bound to fail and leave you with so much less than when you started. The system seems rigged to a lot of men, especially the “good brothas” who are educated and successful. I also know many of the women claiming to be looking for good men are really saying one thing and doing something else. I work with a lot of these single successful women, and the behavior of many is just under scandalous. I watch them shoot down so many brothers for a variety of really shallow reasons. Its not that I think black women or anyone for that matter should settle with less than they desire, but you gotta keep in mind, that many of the brothers they are chasing are looking for their ideal as well, and many sistahs just don't live up to it… HobDragonDotCom made some intresting points, I know a lot of these brothers who are doing just that. Asking us to step up to make bad brothers good is like asking ladies to make strippers housewives.
Another point, men are starting to realize that monogamy may not be for them. We can argue day and night about why it should be or not, but the fact is, a lot of men are feeling that monogamy is not something they are either capable of or want to do…

@MM – LOL, I've been coming across many 'good' black men that frankly think marriage and monogamy have run their course. I still fervently believe that to address other underlying issues in our community, marriage and traditional family structures have their place.

And, although I'd agree that making a ho into a housewife is a frustrating prospect, complaining (blogging, tweeting, etc) about ho-ish or unmanly behavior has become an easy way to vent – with no real solutions. I'd rather put up (and keep tweeting). So we all should do our parts.

I'll post about not so good black women later, but for now – we have got to get past the mythology. If you're an imperfect but real black man, claim that. Hell, I'm as imperfect a black woman as they come. F*ck good, frankly (I'd rather be excellent). I know brothers are leveraging the statistical imbalance, cool – claim that too. Just be honest. This whole “good black men are impossible to find – so my value should be greater” is some post-feminist backlash, that IMHO is hindering us as a people.

Wow! So, the educated, financially stable brotha who is also:
Not on drugs? Or selling drugs? I’m good.
No babymamas? I’m good.
Not unemployed? I’m good.
Not in prison? Haven’t been in prison in the last few years? I’m good.
Not behind in my child support? I’m good.
Not MIA in my child’s life? I’m good.
Not stupid as hell? I’m good.
Not on the DL? I’m good;
is NOT a good man? Just out of curiosity – what's left? How do you (the women in this thread) define the “good brotha”? What's left? Does he also need at least 12 disciples?

Hm…he could be all of the above -> and a serial misogynist. Or a murderer. Or married. Or cheat on his taxes. You see what I did there? I got beyond stereotypical definitions of a 'good' man. GoodBrotha – you might want to try that too

No goodbrotha…that just makes him eligible, you are SUPPOSED to be financially stable which includes having a job, in order to take care of the children you helped create. You are supposed to be in your child's life and have a relationship with the mother (whether with her now or not) so your child knows what a real relationship looks like. You are supposed to consider your body a temple & creation of God …we need to stop mistaking the eligibility requirements, you know the bare minimum to claim “manhood” as entitlement to a good woman by default.

Tantrum much?

I may be wrong GoodBrotha, but I think Lynn was referring to men who consider themselves good if they only have ONE of those traits going for him. And again, “good” is subjective. To me, you can have all that you listed in your response but if you have an aversion to committing to a woman, you are not “good” to me. Too many men in my opinion are just enjoying the black woman candy store way too much and by the time a guy is 50 years old, he has 2 kids by two different women and never married…shame.

I'm sorry there are just way too many wedding shows on TV for me to believe it's all men or “a lot of men and not just a lot of black men (who've heard one school of thought that's the easiest to justify their lifestyle and continue to roll with it)?.. Why isn't this alarming to the “good black man” who's done what they've been tasked on the this earth to do? Monogamy& Marriage isn't just something for “the white folks”….it's about commitment to betterment often financial. You can't have your cake and eat it too….and if you think for one sec that most of those strippers deep down in the their plastic heel don't desire the security and companionship and all that is housewife? PLEASE! We were built to support, love, and nurture “you” black man, yes some of us ladies have forgotten that but more black men have forgotten how their ancestors fought and for love and to get married and be respected…so the question is “good-brothas” self-defined on or not…what are you built for?

It's sad to see this type of response because this issue is just not about a female wanting a man…it's about the black community and black family which is pretty much going down hill each and every day that the black man refuses to be see what's smack dab in his face. I know there will ALWAYS be men who will be life-long bachelors and never marry a woman or the mother of his many kids…but damn…ALL Y'ALL!?!?!?! Come on…you don't see how the black family is practically non-existent? We don't value education, black-on-black crime is still way too high, black men are planting their seed in women left and right and rolling out, we as a people continue to settle for a mediocre life and thus aren't making much progress as a whole…just a small few.

Well, you know where I stand on this…. and good is “subjective” but also, for those men that believe they are a good catch, I honestly think that is half the battle. A lot of men have been so beaten down by women that they don't believe they are worth anything so, they don't have to step up and be better than what they are. From the time many of them are young all they hear is how “bad” Black men are so, what incentive do they have to be good…..give me a man who seems to at least “think” he is good, no matter how arrogant he may come across, he will rise to the occassian and step up his game with me….why? Because I am holding him to task and to the words he says he is…..and that's where a lot of women stop…one mistake and he quickly gets lumped with the rest of the bad brothers instead of holding him accountable and making him face the flaw… but let me stop and not get on my soap box because you know how I feel…..

As I always say, from the cradle to the grave black women shape black men

You have to be a guest on BREAKING DOWN THE WALLS because you just broke that ISH down! Let me know when I can book you! Please I need your common sense pov!

@Michelle – fair & balanced, hm? I'm guessing I should go in on the marginally good sistren next.

Your soap box is necessary, we all need to take it down quite a few notches.

@Lotta – I'd be happy too – let's talk so we can figure out when/where we can make that happen

Wow Lynne, this is really interesting. Ok, my two cents. There is a huge shortage of “good brothers” out there. There are a lot of ok guys out there, but I think there is a big difference between “ok brothers” and “good brothers”.
An “Ok Brother” is one that I “can live with” dating my niece, my sister, or my god-sister. A “good brother” is someone that I'd actually introduce to my niece, my sister, or my god-sister” and hope they'd be interested in each other.
I'm sure I know at least a couple hundred men, but I can count on my fingers the number that I'd actually hope to link with any of my female relatives.

Honestly, I'd like to see a lot more accountability from women on this front. Be clear… I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of brothas who have a lot of work to do on themselves, but when it comes to being accountable, women are on a mission to hold men responsible for what they see as wrong. Often to the point where they paint a picture of the foul brothas outnumbering the “good”. However, sistas who are actually willing to accept the same demands from men – that sistas on a whole own up to their shortcomings – are few and far between. Even though that demand gets thrown at women a lot less often since most men 1. have a “move on rather than complain” attitude, 2. have been drinking the Kool Aid and blindly accept the “women good by nature/men bad by nature” paradigm, 3. have a woman who they're afraid to offend by speaking honestly, or 4. are profiting from the weaknesses (and they are weaknesses) that come from those shortcomings.

Having said that…

Nothing against the author, but as I look thru the laundry list that brothas feel makes them “a good brotha”, has anyone asked themselves where oh where these dudes got the idea that THIS was the list of “good brotha” attributes? The obvious answer, to my mind, is from sistas. Brothas didn't self-create this list. So if integrity, character, communication, emotional availability, sensitivity, courage, or being commitment-ready aren't on that list how does one skip past the author(s) of “the list” and go right to criticisms of those who celebrate the fact that they fit the bill? (For the record, I don't agree that “commitment-ready” is an attribute that should even be on that list. When a man is ready, he's ready. Sistas don't accept any grief 'from no man' when they're doing their “independent woman” thing and they settle down when they're good and ready. Fair is fair).

So while I appreciate the point made that our typical notions of a “good brotha” tend to fall short, it's worth addressing where these notions come from. It's practically a variation on the typical complaint that men have about women… that they expect us to read their minds. We've been given a list of “what makes a good brotha”, then when we live up to that list there's “well, you fall short in all the areas I DIDN'T include”. Now, the discussion I'D like to see is digging into why the attributes that comprise the list are so well known among people of color, but the ones not on the list are discussed so rarely that they don't even register on the radar anymore.

Truth, truth and more truth. These are facts that many women would prefer to treat like “excuses”, when in reality not only are they justified and logical reactions, but a by-product of womens' collective sexual liberation and claims to a seat at the “traditionally male” table. Not that I'm mad that women now enjoy more equality and liberation (I absolutely am NOT mad at all)… BUT, the fact remains that with added power/freedom comes added responsibility/consequences. Those aren't my rules. Hell, that's just LIFE!

As heavy as write-ups like these leave my heart over the disconnect between many (most?) Black men & women when it comes to relationships, that feeling is invariably dwarfed by the chasm between brothas & sistas that comes into view once I read the comments section. It's unfortunate that many of your (valid) points are ignored in lieu of the “bitter much?”, “hate sistas much?”, and other sassy but pointless variety of comebacks – as invariably happens to brothas in these discussions when they don't mince words.

Is it NOT true that many women settle into wanting stability after sexing bad boys without the desired outcome? Is it NOT true that women often seek out the “boring nice guys” they rejected while they were “just having fun” when they now seek stability? Is it NOT true that brothas who find rejection among sistas get jumped on by women of other races? Is this statement NOT true…? “When we offer solutions for this “successful but single black woman” issue we are ignored or drowned out with “you know what yall problems is!”

Along with other statements made, these are all very true observations. Observations worthy of serious consideration and discussion. But they're dismissed out-of-hand because you didn't “say them nice”. A consideration, mind you, that brothas rarely enjoy in male/female relationship discussions.

I will say this… the tone does come across as one of someone who's been hurt or frustrated and is enjoying (maybe a little too much) the backlash that women are feeling now at this point in their lives overall. IF that is true, and I'm not assuming that it is, some more healing on that front might be beneficial. But what I won't do is “go in” on this Black man for speaking from that place of hurt/frustration (as off-putting as it might be to some) when sistas are celebrated, coddled, rewarded, and encouraged for doing precisely the same thing. Why should the focus be allowed to be so obviously shifted from the topic-appropriate points he raises and placed upon his (alleged) emotional state in regards to women. Try doing that to a sista and watch the charges of male-privilege start raining down.

I detest self-professed “nice guys” who say things like HobDragon, b/c they aren't really nice at all.

I found this post offensive, bitter, and poorly-referenced to make your point. If that makes me sensitive so be it. Personally, I think you should find another race of men to date if it’s that serious. I certainly wouldn't care, in fact, I'd expect it.

Most offensive is your point about “marginally” good black men. I know for a fact, there are brothers taking care of kids that aren’t theirs while the woman is getting child support and on PA at home watching Wendy. Not b/c they are pussy whipped, but out of a sense of love and that children need a good male figure in their lives. That's not just a good brother, that's a great brother. I personally know black men who are homemakers and hard workers all in the same day. I know black men personally who have to take care of their “achieving” wives like children. This brother's woman can't/won’t cook, can't braid hair, don't want to clean shit, stay wanting to get high, don't want to work, and want to look at them like “they're the problem”

What sucks is this constant judgment by our women that we aren't all striving to be rich or academic scholars. WE should define what is a good black man…not women. But that’s what we get from black men…we aren’t ballers so we ain’t shit, I’m sorry we’re “marginally good”.

Further, black men do not own a patent on being full of shit…I have met so many full of shit black women, I stopped dating them for two years. Women who want to keep the baby-father in the house, while they fuck you at yours. Women who want to keep you from your mother and your family out of some fear that they will turn you against their full of shit ass. Women who keep you on guilt trips so that you always feel like you owe them something. Listen. Black men don't have shit to prove to anybody. We are challenged by our circumstances and we should try to face those challenges head on. Oh yes, I am my brother's keeper and have been kept by many a good black man.

There are always going to be those who are self-destructive. There are always going to be those who are not socially sophisticated enough to be able to conduct themselves as a black man should in a marraige/relationship. For everyone of those brothers…there is one who doing twice that. If you want that get that, but just because that brother don’t want you, doesn’t make him a bad black man.

If you come from shit as many black men have and you not in prison, and you not on drugs, and you do have a job…how dare someone call you anything else but a good brother. A good man is a contributing member of society. That's it. Just because we aren't striving to be millionaires or CEO’s doesn't mean we aren't deserving of respect. It’s clear, for a black woman to feel great, she has to have it all and she needs you to work for it. Fuck. That.

We shouldn't have to measure up to some standard set by any race of women, particularly from women who are quick to describe themselves as strong. Are you your sister’s keeper? If so, this post is not helping them.

No, black men aren't perfect, but that does not mean we should be made to feel guilty about it. This nation is stained with the sweat of our contributions.

@baddadanu – I think you missed a few key points:
a) The problem is that there aren’t enough of them.
b) The problem is that the good ones aren’t necessarily addressing the rest of them.
c) And the problem is that the idea of being a “good brotha” is very subjective.

So – what SHOULD be on the list, that's discussed so rarely they aren't on the radar?

@Please Make It Stop – What do your points about men caring for women/children on child support and PA really have to do with this discussion? Yes, we know – they are “good black men”. If you're “good”, this doesn't apply to you.

and regarding the “poorly-referenced” comment above – if there aren't enough references in the articles linked above – I don't know what else you need. Census data? More articles that state the education/achievement gap?

As to the rest of your comment – it suggests that we set the bar for black men so low, that we expect no more than avoiding drugs, jail and paying your taxes. I'm guessing that works for you. I was raised by a 'good brotha', so for me – it does not.

@Todd – Exactly. While I'm not trying to roast black men in general over the coals, the idea that we lower the bar for some of them does them a disservice, and it does a disservice to the women that will eventually encounter them.

I'm hoping that our community wakes up and begins instituting social checks or mores to their bad behavior, so these men will 'get' it. Women should close their collective legs to bullshyt. Good men should stop defending them. I don't expect good men to literally chin-check bad ones, but our community used to have standards for a man's behavior, and it seems like those standards are increasingly degrading, with no one calling them on it.

It's interesting though. Appreciate your comment

BaddaDanU: It is “true,” that many women “sex bad boys,” in the same way it is “true” that many men sex bad girls or otherwise sow wild oats. Then you get some age and, I hope, some good sense and realize such a strategy doesn't work so well if you want a lasting partnership.

To be upset about such a thing is something no adult of either gender should engage in. That HobDragonDotCom did — and with such sterotype-laden vitriol — shows that his goal was to attack rather than engage in dialogue.

Mind you, he didn't say “Too many women also think they're a catch when they aren't.” He said, roughly, “Waaaah! Why didn't the sistas pick me? Well, I'll show them how awesome I am by dating white women.” The former we all can co-sign. The latter is immature bullsh*t. And, in my experience, it suggests an attitude of entitlement and/or resentment that explains why many self-described “good men” are still single.

That brings me to my next point: it is also NOT true that women of other races “jump” on “rejected” black men. 43% of black men of marrying age are not married. That's compared to 42% of black women of the same age. IIRC, about 3% of all black men are in interracial marriages. That doesn't sound very much like y'all are being “jumped on” by women of other races at all. In fact, it sounds like we're both in the same boat. So not only was HobDragonDotCom sniping but he was wrong.

Let's be clear: my problem is not that HobDragonDotCom questioned Lynne's call for black men to check each other's behavior. My problem isn't that he is tired of black men getting blamed for the state of black marriage. My problem is with his misogyny, internalized racism, and above all his whining about not being chosen by the hot chick at the club.

a & c) Not enough of WHO? The “good brothas” comprised of attributes that sistas hardly ever include on their lists of what makes a good brotha? Even in your own point “c” you state that the idea of a “good brotha” is very subjective. So if it's so subjective, how can does a brotha meet a standard that sistas haven't even defined (much less expressed)? And how does one quantify how many are or aren't enough when the criteria aren't even accurate? The typical sista's list of “good brotha attibutes” reads like the one you originally laid out, but obviously there are unexpressed “phantom” criteria that sistas either are not actively seeking on their own, aren't expressing as requirements, or both.

But let's be honest for a minute. If every single eligible brotha was instantly “miracled” into the ideal perfect man… there still wouldn't be enough for every sista. So how many is “enough” exactly?

b) As for brothas addressing other brothas, I don't know about you but I see it plenty. But when these discussions happen face-to-face it doesn't always happen in venues where women are present. Hell, we often make as much of an effort to keep “man talk” among men as women do to keep “girl talk” amongst themselves. Besides brotha to brotha discussions are often more effective without sistas jumping in – which absolutely defeats the purpose of a “brotha to brotha” discussion.

As far as what should be on that list… I already put forward attributes like “integrity, character, communication, emotional availability, sensitivity, courage”. If you find sistas rattling these qualities off it's usually as an afterthought to all the other “baseline good brotha” requirements you listed above.

I would first like to thank Lynn for asking me what I though about this article. I would personally consider myself one of the good brothas. Not because I'm egotistical, but I truly am. Don't get me wrong I have flaws. There is a lot of truth to this article. Understand something, the good- bruthas battle against a lot of stereotypes and society's willingness to assist the independent black woman in remaining independent doesn't make it any easier. I have an issue with my bad-bruthas who would prefer not to step up and take their place in the black community. Whenever one of us good bruthas impart some understanding to them they put and pitch a big one and claims you're ” hating on how they live or you're a “sell-out” or a “slave”. It's lame to be positive, proactive, honest, legal with great character in their eyesite. Now I don't let what they think effect me, but when you that guy who would rather live off someone or some agency with no intentions of becoming self-sufficient for the future of your family and community then my efforts of empowering you becomes limited. Women give these men something to live up to. Give these bad-brothas a reason to get themselves together. Don't be so quick to lower your standards when u need the touch of a man. It gives these guys the impression they don't have to do much to have their way with you. Let him be just as independent as you would like him to let you be. Encourage his love for anything constructive, positive and spiritual. Be honest. Give him achievable goals when it comes to you then confidence in who he is, if it's not already, will be strengthen. Finally don't force any man who openly doesn't want to improve himself. -GUESTwriter0777

Okay, let's inject a bit of honesty here. If the exact same sentiments were being expressed about men by a woman, “she'd” be getting “atta girl's” and kudos for “just being real about shit” from sistas all up & down the board. If anyone labeled “her” criticisms male-bashing, they'd be chastized for not sympathizing with “what women go through with men”. If anyone labeled “her” a race-traitor (much less someone with internalized racism!), they'd be given the whole “well since Black men don't appreciate Black women they have to find love where they can” shpeel. And if anyone labeled “her” a whiner they'd be simply called a bitter, unfeeling man and held up as an example of why we can't connect. So right off the bat we should do away with the unsubstantiated labels. For all you know this man has plenty of love to give TO THE RIGHT SISTA, and all his vitriol is reserved for sistas who have earned it by being the shallow hypocrites he describes.

Does he come off as course? Angry? Sure. But honestly some of your comments do as well so let's not judge too harshly.

I have to ask… what if HobDragon's goal WAS to attack? Who do you assume he's attacking? Or, better stated… why do you assume his attack was on all Black women rather than those who, as he described, were guilty of rejecting quality men for bad ones and running back to them later in life, guilty of demanding Black men “step up” while giving themselves passes on their own shortcomings, guilty of drowning out “good” men's attempts to build bridges with ill-placed criticisms, and guilty of looking for the previously rejected men to work on “fixing” the brothas these same women flocked to earlier in life? Why would you assume that, rather than just THOSE sistas, that he bears anger for all? Did he state anything indicating otherwise? Read again.

Maybe you identify with the sistas he's going in on and it sparked that reaction. Understandable. But even if he described you to a tee and it struck a nerve, that doesn't equal misogyny or hate for Black women as a whole. As often as sistas post screeds with exponentially more vitriol in their words against Black men as a result of past/present rejections, I'd think there would be more understanding on that front.

As for the statistical data, this brings light to a topic that men & women differ on GREATLY! Men, in general, see marriage as the ultimate RESULT of a relationship – and not necessarily a necessity. The RELATIONSHIP is the goal. The wedding to us is window dressing, just a ceremony, and even seen as a trap to some (often with good reason). Women, however (generally speaking, of course) see MARRIAGE as the brass ring. It IS the GOAL. So not only do statistics of marriage fail to reflect the frequency with which women of other races “jump on” Black men (rejected or not), they also fail to show that Black men absolutely DO NOT see themselves as “in the same boat” as Black women. SISTAS want the WEDDINGS. 99 times out of 100 we could care less about a ring. We just want our woman by our side.

LOL I don't think HobDragon ever claimed to be “nice”. In the same way some women embrace their “bitch” status and will tell anyone who will listen that it gets them more success with men, quite a few brothas are well aware that they aren't “nice guys” and not only does it gain them success with the ladies, they will kindly remind you where “nice guys” finish.

I wrote about a related subject the other day on my blog.

I think most of the issues regarding Black relationships are all very specific, from the successful Black female to the perpetually adolescent dude, all these are symptoms of another bigger issue.
I’m 25. The majority of my 2520 friends and associates are married and have at least one child, while others my age and my color are really no where close to being at that place in life.

The difference between them and us? They still have the same sort of values as their grandparents and we don’t.

And why is that?

Their opportunities haven’t changed and ours have. Tremendously.

In the last 100 years, we got the right, then actually opportunity to vote, we started attending college, we started getting jobs we were shut out of, women were able to persue advanced
degrees (other women were taking advantage of this too, but of course with all our other issues it's magnified with us), men didn’t have to work as hard to make a living, desegregation, etc.

We JUST started being proud of our Blackness in the last 40 years or so.

We’re JUST now starting to consider natural hair as something that is normal.

As Black people, we’re still trying to find our way in the relatively new situation we’re in.

I myself wonder what we’ll be like in another 50 or 100 years…that once we get used to all these new opportunities, they won’t be such big deals anymore and we’ll settle back into the family model like everyone else.

thanks 007 – and that's all I'm suggesting. Frankly, I've wondered why so many good men are quick to defend the bad ones. I don't understand why you'd want your good efforts to be sullied by men who aren't putting forth any.

And you're right, we all need to collectively hold ourselves (and each other) to a higher standard. And reinforce positive behaviors when we see it. Thanks for your feedback.

First, GUESTwriter007 username has changed to GUNTAS pronounced(goon-TAS). Now, I like KaNisa's statement regarding the opportunity and identity transition Black America is experiencing, to say the least. Back to the actual article, The guy the author met who supposedly was a good-brutha was living a delusional life or, in a sense, defining himself according to what has become commonplace in Black social circles. As long as it's tolerated it will continue. My issue with my Black women is they're quick to acknowledge a man's flaws and short comings, continue to hold dead stereotypes over on that man so they can feel superior, denying the stereotypes they volunteer to hold on to. When the man refuses to live out those incriminating stereotypes something's wrong with him. The woman doesn't want to have anything to do with him. I'm only speaking from the women who I have come across. Like what “Please Make It Stop” stated, women don't want the guy that's making sincere efforts to be a better asset to society. They want the “CEO” or the “high rolling business man” nothing less. It gives me the impression black women want “the end result” type of guy while they remain who they are. Think how awkward that relationship will be. Especially if the guy don't have the patience, love and respect to assist you in becoming COMPATIBLE to him. So for you independent, “successful” women out there who are looking for that “good-brutha” make sure you're willing to be all that you expect him to be. It's all about COMPATIBILITY & good CHEMISTRY. If you want the finish product you gotta be the finish product compatible to him. If you are growing into the person you aspire to be, find that guy who is doing the same thing. That way you're growing together into who you are. Finally, when you see red flags about the guy you're involved in, don't dis' him and leave him. If you like him like that assist him in fixing those red flags. Let him know through your actions you value what you want or have with him. It takes a good-sista to notices a good-brutha and the same for a good-brutha to notices a good-sista. -GUNTAS

I'm just going to put this out there. I am a Black woman, who married a white man. Now before the eyes begin to roll and the word sell-out rolls of your tongues let me finish. I did not marry a white man because I couldn’t find a “good Black man”. I married a white man because he was compatible to me. If he was Black, Asian, or Puerto Rican I would have married him because it not about him being stereotypically “good” it about being good for you.

To my Black woman, I know there is a want and if not need to be in a Black on Black relationship, to make beautiful little Black babies, and make love to the song “Brown Skin” all night. There is nothing wrong with that. But…don't limit yourself to the possibilities of a joyous, stable, loving married life just based on race. If you feel like “good” Black men are the Lochness of society or they simply skip over you once they surpass your definition of good than move one. If a Black man feels as though is goodness shouldn't be wasted on a Black woman, why would you want him anyway.

To my Black men, I too am never sure on the definition of “good” Black men. Some women say it MUST include a master’s degree, 6 figures, and so forth. Other say just be good to your children and have decent credit. So there really is no definitive. I will say this though, just because a woman has standards doesn't make her wrong, it doesn't make her needy. If you feel you are “good” but you don’t meet a particular woman’s standards…move on. This is one Black woman that doesn't mind Black men dating outside their race (as long as they're not doing it for status, or because of some deep hatred for Black woman-talk to a shrink).
Finding a mate is not about race, it’s about finding true love, compatible love, and stable love, in my most humble opinion.

GREAT !!!
I LIKE READING YOUR BLOG!

Great point, nomdeplume

Great point, nomdeplume

I agree that Black women need to be a little bit more open to interracial relationships.
And I agree that women have varying standards. Very nicely said.

How did I miss this? This is excellent.